Yo Dave, so what's this fuss in England ? R/C doesn't want to die ? Did you stop to play for a while or did you stay away from the lights between two records / tours ?

There was a long gap between 1984 and 1995, but since then I've kept it going in fits and starts. It just seems like we're sleeping as we've had numerous line-up changes and that slows down producing new releases and gigs to some degree.

You know some of our readers may be younger than your first record, so I guess you can't escape and have to remind us your first steps in the scene !

I formed Riot/Clone in 1979 but aside from a couple of cassette albums it wasn't until 1982 that we released our first EP on our own label. We did two more Eps, but then the line-up split and I didn't really have the enthusiasm to find new members at that time. I met up with Pete again in 1992 and we got together again to do a project called Mad Dog. The best songs of Mad Dog are on the "No Government" album - People hated Mad Dog, then said that the MD songs were really good once they were released as Riot/Clone. Go figure.

While Mad Dog was short lived, it showed that there was an interest in Riot/Clone, so we decided to reform the band, but were adamant that it would be as a proper band producing new material, not just redoing the old stuff and trying to bask in past glories - not that we were sure we had that many glories to bask in to be honest. Since then the line-up has had more changes but despite that we've released three full length albums and have a new EP coming out shortly on Alternative Records from California. We're also working on writing a new album for release later this year.

Your share of the royalties were supposed to be donated to the Animal Liberation Front. Do you know if they ve really been ? On your site you mention that the CD reissue forgot to add this on the back cover. Does this mean that there ain't no royalties this time ?

Royalties get sent to me and the cheques are made out to the ALF, so I pass them on. Same for the CD version.

It's easier to be vegan in the UK now than it was to be vegetarian back in the early 80s when I went vegetarian so things are moving in the right direction with regards to food. Animal rights and animal welfare are also more an accepted way of life, even to the point where Tony Blair tries to make political advantage by embracing parts of it such as when he promised to ban fox hunting. He hasn't though, so once again it seems as if politicians words are worth the paper they're written on. While there is still a long way to go, I think that animal rights ideas are at least fairly well known and relatively accepted in the UK across a wide range of people, and those ideas are also gaining ground in Europe and the US which is good. Downsides would be the power that companies have now, particularly multinationals, who care more about the cost of things than the suffering that goes into them. Since Thatcher, animal rights activists have also been treated as terrorists by the Government which is a bad thing. Not only because it means longer prison sentences for those arrested, but it also means that we also don't get many pro-animal documentaries on television, whereas in the back half of the 80s there were quite a few, and they were very effective in getting through to the ordinary person on the street.

If some people still had illusions about the Labour Party, what are they thinking now, after several years of betrayal and lies ? Isn't Labour's policy the continuation of the Tories ? Socially, politically ?

I don't know anyone who had any illusions about Blair and Labour first time around, though I don't really hang out with many people sold on party politics and the democratic system. Blair is very similar to Margaret Thatcher in policies and the way he approaches things. Those who voted Labour will probably do so again, but there is very little alternative here. Both the main parties are effectively the same, so whoever is in 'power', the poor are gonna get the sharp end of the stick. Where Blair will probably lose out, is on any animal rights votes he managed to get before, but I suspect most of those will either be non-voters next time or vote Green Party or something like that.

What about this Labour guy opposed to Blair in London, Ken Livingstone ? He's supposed to be a 'red' regarding Labour's ideals...although they allowed him to be a Labour member again...

They allowed him back into the Labour Party not because they like him any more than they did, but because Blair knew that he would be the most likely candidate to win the vote for London mayor next time around and didn't want the Labour candidate to get beaten again. By taking Ken Livingstone back, he's now got an official Labour candidate who stands a good chance of winning. I don't agree with everything Ken Livingstone says, but he's one of the few politicians who I have some respect for because he says what he believes regardless of whether it's the official party line, or whether it's going to be popular with the general public.

The NF was a big issue in the early days of punk. Today the BNP seems to have a new audience with his new leader, and might be a bigger threat than before?

I don't believe they are or will be. While they can be dangerous when they target small areas that contain many disillusioned people, they are very much a minority party who stand little chance of gaining the attention enjoyed by the NF in the 70s. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying that they should be ignored or that people should be apathetic, because if you happen to live in an area they are targetting and consequently destabilizing, then it would be a serious personal issue, but I think that to overstate their importance in the political infrastructure is probably doing their cause more good than harm, as people are more likely to be attracted to the far right if they think it has a credible chance of getting anywhere. Education and the eradication of poverty are the best answers to fascism, but those in charge don't seem to give a fuck about either.

I see very little of the people who were involved first time round. The Lost Cherrees since they've reformed, but that's about it really. The scene nowadays is smaller and in some ways better for it as the people involved are more committed to it, but it's a shame that it's not more widespread. Certainly most mainland Europe scenes are far better than the UK one and I don't really see that changing much.

I've nothing against Chumbawamba as such, and think that what they did with their 'fame' was pretty good. Things like allowing General Motors to use one of their songs for an advert and giving all the money to environmental groups, for instance, undoubtedly had a more positive effect than just turning down the ad would have done.  Signing to EMI of all labels, I found to be hypocritical though, given everything they had said in the past about EMI and the acts on EMI. As for the EP, it just happened that when Chris was looking for bands to appear on it, I had studio time booked to add words to a couple of songs that hadn't been finished when we recorded the Bluebird album, so one of those lyricless tunes became Chumbawanka.

Also, I guess you weren't too hot about the HITS festival. It's not a common thing in the punk scene, so that'd be good to hear your ideas about it.

We're the only band I know of who has been offered HITS and turned it down. It seems that even the other bands who initially turned it down have since decided to play. My problem with the whole event is Daz Russell. The guy has ripped off bands ever since he put on shows at the Mermaid in Birmingham in the mid 80s. I don't think bands should support a promoter who rips off bands. It's as simple as that.

I've only seen them 37 times. Would have been 39 but I missed the other two London shows that I know of and didn't have the chance to get outside of London too often back then. I came across the Ruts almost by accident, before they'd released their first single. Some of my mates saw them supporting a band they'd been to see and were handed flyers for a free Rock Against Racism gig they were playing in Southall Park with some reggae bands like Misty. I went along to that one and we got talking to the band. After that I went to every gig they played that I could get to. I used to go up and sing backing vocals for them at some gigs, which was cool, and the Ruts ended up giving Riot/Clone our first gig at the Nashville in London when the support band didn't turn up. There were only three of us there that night though and most of our set consisted of covers that Rat Scabies (who was deputising on guitar and he did a bit of drumming later in the set) knew, so I've never counted it as our actual first gig. That came 3 weeks later at the Grove Tavern in Kingston, 8th October 1979.

But yeah, the Ruts were brilliant. Certainly one of my all time favourite bands. Nice guys too.

Are you touring France again soon ? or do you hate us because our food is better ?

HAHA! Don't make me laugh. You could starve to death in France for want of decent vegan food, particularly not being able to speak the language when you're out.

But anyway.

No, we're not touring anywhere due to work and family commitments some members of the band have. We're willing to play odd shows pretty much anywhere though, as long as our costs are guaranteed. The only chance to see us in France for the foreseeable future, will be on 27th March at Maloka in Dijon, which we're looking forward to.

Thanks for taking the time to interview us, Raf. The Riot/Clone website is currently being renovated, but will eventually be finished and is found at www.riotclone.org while I can be contacted on dave@riotclone.org should anyone want to ask me anything.

Refuse/All started in May 2005 after Riot/Clone split due to Dave, vocals and founder member of Riot/Clone, decided to end it all and move to the USA. We all wanted to carry on playing  but wanted to do our own songs too and so we recruited a new singer, Alex from punk metal band SORB, changed the band name and over the last 6 months we have been working on new material and now only play a couple of Riot/Clone songs at gigs. We have played with some great bands over the last few months including Abrasive Wheels, GBH, Lost Cherrees, Vice Squad, etc and have more lined up with the likes of Conflict, UK Subs etc. In December we go into the recording studio to record an album which will be all new material. More information on the band can be found on www.refuse-all.tk and www.myspace.com/refuseall

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